A Public Comment in Defense of my Hatred September 29
1. New Kids on the Block are not generally considered the first “Boy Band”. It is argued by many that The Beatles were the first Boy Band. And if it’s not them, it’s the Monkees, or the Temptations, the Sex Pistols, or countless others.
I knew the Beatles would be brought up when I said this. I meant the modern incarnation of what is generally accepted as the term “boy band”. Put together for the sole purpose of attracting young females and not generally concerned with songwriting or music. Image rather than substance. The Monkees had some solid songs, even if they were written by Neil Diamond. NEIL!!!
5. Bayes’ view means that the innovator will always be valued less than the modern incarnation. The nature of progress is that every artist must either imitate or build upon what occurred beforehand.
This is not true. A metaphor could be used with the Beatles and toilet paper. For all of the scientific and technological progress made by humankind, society has yet to improve upon the simple piece of toilet paper to wipe our asses. The Beatles are society’s toilet paper. Sure, French people may shoot water on their asses, but not everyone has caught on and many still prefer the soft texture of double ply sharmen ultra. The newer model is not always better, sometimes you cannot improve on the first model. When you can’t, you are left with the first model. Hence, the Beatles, Elvis, Buddy Holly, etc. Which, as a side note, The Clash owe more to Buddy Holly than anyone owes to The Clash. The simple catchy songs of the 1950s could be seen as the impetus for the punk movement, even if the lyrical content was politicized and attracted a pissed off youth in the process.
Furthermore, the fact that he categorically denies the value of Rap, Hip-Hop, and R & B demonstrates that this objective process is not occurring.
I stand by my statement that these genres have no musical value other than to influence further “artists” in creating more useless music to be placed in this genre. Hip hop and rap will soon go the way of disco because there is nowhere else to go with it because it is not good or innovative. Basic rock music will always be the basis of popular music because sometimes that is just the way it is.
I also didn’t cite the Beatles so as to not alienate the readership and for Tarr to say so is denouncing my beliefs as merely part of a generally accepted bandwagon. I actually do have some sense of what is worthwhile without having to rely on others for this line of thought.
Aaron Sep 29
Your comments are not made more accurate by posting them twice.
And I thought the Clash lacked melody? How, then, can they be in the vein of Buddy Holly. Kudos, however, because that statement is true: Buddy Holly is likely more influential than the Clash. My point was that your statement about thinking Adams’ is better than Young, as well as your point about the wheel, do not make sense as a universal application. I think in your toilet paper analogy you are essentially rendering your wheel analogy obsolete, unless:
1) You think the Beatles and Buddy Holly’s artistry has never been advanced (I think highly debatable).
2) You divide Rock history’s lineage into many more subsets than you appear to do with other genres, ie-separating Neil Young from the Bealtes while subsequently grouping Hip-Hop, Rap, and R & B into one lump category.
What makes Buddy Holly and the Beatles two of the most influential bands is not that they haven’t been advanced, but that they represent an enormous paradigm shift in popular music. Furthermore, it should be said that Buddy Holly is one of the primary artists responsible for Rap, Hip-Hop, and R and B because he took a music form that was viewed as traditionally black and underground and brought it to the white mainstream, opening the door for motown and all of it’s modern forms. This, fo course, was met with much resistance.
It should also be said that the Clash’s influence is fealt within hip-hop and Rap as well, through both attitude and substance. Rap’s roots are in the political discontent, as well as the adaptation of beats an rhythms driven from Africa, the Caribean, the Middle East, and other initially non-western forms. The Clash were enamored with non-western music (as were both Buckley and the Beatles) and tried to adapt other musical forms into their work. This exposes, I think, that we have limited ourselves to a Euro-Western discussion when we do not include the influence of artists from outside the western world as part of our scope of influence.
And I think that asserting Rap and Hip-Hop will dissolve the way disco did is extremely naiive, since Disco lasted 7 years (generously) while rap and hip-hop have already lasted several decades. They are not a fad. R and B is so closely related to Motown, and clealy that has lasted for just as long as rock.
Jon Oct 1
What about Aesop Rock, Mr. Lif, the Perceptionists, Brother Ali, Immortal Technique .. oh you never heard those albums (you dick).
Rap goes further than 50 cent and -although I like Kanye- Kanye West. I’m sure you’d be indignant if someone tried to judge rock and roll by Nickelback and Smashmouth.
Adam Oct 1
I’ve never heard of them but they have pretty dumb names.